I Don’t Trust Seth Godin
Update (01/03/2007): Seth responds to Chris Knudsen’s email regarding this post. I have to say that I’m impressed with Seth’s quick response, but I still think he’s wrong and that his status as a golden calf that people worship is very, very strange to me.
Here is Seth’s email:
Hi Chris
Thanks for the note. And thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post such thoughtful comments.
I’m actually not asking ANYONE to trust me. That’s not the point of the work. The point is to give people something to think about. So I think Pete’s headline is misleading. There are plenty of institutions and individuals I trust, by the way, who don’t enable comments…
The bigger issue is about “should.” I have a problem when people say what a medium should or must have. A novel must not have pictures, or a blog must have comments. If you think that Boingboing, Cuban, Winer and I have misnamed our blogs, you’re welcome to, but I’m not sure it’s worth all the letters spilled over it.
So, I guess my takeaway is that a few people would really like all blogs (including mine) to have comments. My post about why I don’t have them stands… I just don’t have the constitution. I read my email, I read my trackbacks, I listen to my readers more than almost any successful author since Gutenberg got into publishing. If that’s not enough, I guess I have to shrug and acknowledge I can’t please everyone.
He’s right that my headline is misleading. It’s not necessarily about trust, but about community, or lack thereof. I grant him that. Cuban allows comments and he responds to some; BoingBoing and Winer have a similar format to Seth’s site.
It’s Seth’s site and it’s his choice. That’s fine. I do think that there is life in the comments and sometimes insight and wonder comes out of the conversation in the comments. Thanks for responding to quickly, Seth. Yes, the title of this post is misleading — I’d change it, but I don’t want to change history. So, I’ll let it stand, but it really ought to be titled something different.
Update (01/02/2007): There is a nice conversation in the comments section of Chris Knudsen’s blog.
Nice job, Chris.
+++++
The Seth Godin blog is nothing more than a PR Machine. He speaks and speaks “with authority” but, many fail to see that it’s only he that is doing the talking. The Seth Godin blog is nothing more than a press release, littered with ideas from Marketing Communications, using blogging technology. It’s not a transparent dialogue with an audience. Let me explain.
Lack of Community; One-Way Dialogue
Yes, he talks, but he doesn’t allow others to talk back. Comments are not allowed on his blog, which is how his audience can respond and react to what he is saying. In the absense of any dialogue, his blog effectively becomes a PR Newswire Service — except it’s his own propaganda that he is spewing.
Trackbacks — he does allow that, but neither responds nor acknowledges them. Again, it’s just he that is doing the talking.
Community and Trust
I’m more likely to trust someone who has embraced their community and audience; someone who listens (allowing for comments & responding to them, which Seth doesn’t do) and linking out (which he does). But, the absence of comments makes me weary of Seth Godin; it makes me think that he might be afraid to respond to some of the questions or criticisms that people might have toward his books and his ideas. Is he hiding something? Why doesn’t he listen to audience? Why should we trust Seth Godin and believe what he says?
All Marketer’s are Liars & So is Seth Godin
In his book, he argues the following:
“Every consumer has a worldview that affects the product you want to sell. That worldview alters the way they interpret everything you say and do. Frame your story in terms of the worldview, and it will be heard.” (excerpted from page 60)
“People only notice stuff that’s new and different. And the moment they notice something new, they start making guesses about what to expect next.” (excerpted from page 68)
“Humans are able to make extremely sophisticated judgments in a fraction of a second. And once they’ve drawn that conclusion, they resist changing it.” (excerpted from page 76)
“Stories let us lie to ourselves. And those lies satisfy our desires. It’s the story, not the good or the service you actually sell, that pleases the customer.” (excerpted from page 84)
“The only stories that work, the only stories with impact, the only stories that spread are the `I can’t believe that!’ stories. These are the stories that aren’t just repeated: these are the stories that demand to be repeated.” (excerpted from page 132)
I don’t know about you, but while I value stories, I also value products that go above and beyond perception — I look for truly value-added goods and services. Seth is following his own advice by appealing to our need for the “novel”, something different and new. But, he fails to address the fact that “worldview” — the lens by which you see and respond to the world, includes the necessity for an audience to talk back — via comments and trackbacks on blogs and with the author responding to some of those. This appeals to the basic worldview of “speaking and being heard and validated”.
Closing Statement
I have not read any of Seth’s books; I’ve only superficially scanned the pages of some of them. I don’t subscribe to his blog feed; I’ve only visited his site a handful of times, less than 15 times. I actually don’t know him nor know much about him. I’m sure he’s a nice person. But, the absence of comments is puzzling to me and makes me distrustful of what he has to say.
I wouldn’t trust what he has to say. If he’s not willing to listen and respond to his audience, then why engage with him? I don’t trust Seth Godin — he doesn’t have a human face.
Clarke Ching said,
January 1, 2007 @ 11:38 am
Hi ya,
Forgive my momentary cynicism, but this post looks like you’re trying to attract blog subscribers by saying something controversial about a popular blogger. I don’t imagine this is true, given your thoughtful content, but this is what it looks like.
I’ve emailed Seth occasionally and he responded back to me very quickly and very helpfully. I’ve also read a number of his books. The “purple cow” and “Free prize inside” books are very easy to read and have helped me understand the world better.
From what you say, he has disabled comments on his blog now, but I can’t blame him given he has a huge audience (i.e. tens of thousands of subscribers) and he couldn’t possibly manage, respond to or even read, all of the comments.
Why would you trust him more if he had comments enabled?
Clarke
David Carlton said,
January 1, 2007 @ 11:48 am
I’m not sure how to say this without giving offence (I like your blog enough to be subscribed to it in my feed reader, honest!), but I’m not sure your blog is as open to dialog and community as it could be, either. When I go to one of your blog posts, the upper 85% of the screen is filled with ads and with links to your other blog posts: I have to scroll down to actually read what you are saying. Then, beneath the post, there are ways for users to publicize your post, followed by a bunch of allegedly “related posts”, none of which look related to me and none of which I’ve ever had a desire to click on. Then there are more ads. Comments are under all of that (a screen and a half after the end of the post proper), buried far enough down that a reader who simply reads to the end of what you have to say will never see any comments.
So what this says to me is that your priorities are:
1. Ad views.
2. Generating a mass of cross-links within your site.
3. The content of the post itself.
4. User comments.
I’m glad that you have comments, but I’d rather be able to easily read your posts. (After all, there’s a reason why I’m subscribed to you!) As is, the message that your screen layout sends me is that you largely care about readers as a source of ad revenue. And I’m very confused by the purpose of the mass of cross links - I assume they’re providing you with some benefit, but I can’t quite figure out what benefit that is.
I also don’t think it’s fair to say that he doesn’t provide a way for others to talk back: his blog has an “Email Me” link. What his blog doesn’t provide is a way to easily see others’ responses. (Which is, of course, important.) I haven’t e-mailed him (I don’t read his blog), but, in the past, when I’ve e-mailed authors of blogs without comments, I’ve gotten quick responses.
psabilla said,
January 1, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
@Clarke,
Thanks for your comment.
I don’t think Seth has ever turned comments on. I’m not the only one who questions Seth — Arrington and Shel Israel and other have also.
No, I’m not looking for publicity.
For me, it’s about community and dialogue; for him, it’s about speaking to an audience, not necessarily a dialogue. I find that strange. Here is his explanation for why he doesn’t allow for comments.
Pete
psabilla said,
January 1, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
@David,
Yes, my site is spammy in a way and usability pretty much sucks. I concede and I’ll work on that.
The ads — it’s not primary for me, though I make enough on them to be able to buy pizza once in a while.
Cross-links (on the right side-bar, is that what you mean?) — yes, that’s for, I’m hoping, easier navigation to other articles. Otherwise, it’s a little difficult to navigate to articles that might be of interest to some readers.
I’ll work on making the site less spammy, and easier to read. Thanks for reading, David.
Pete
Christer Edwards said,
January 1, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
I’ll have to disagree again. I posted a trackback to Seth’s blog yesterday and he emailed me less than ten minutes later to mention he had accidentally deleted it so I could try & re-ping the site. We emailed back and forth a couple of times and he was very responsive. Granted I didn’t discuss any specific topics with him he did take the time to respond to his audience.
While I agree that blogs should have comments enabled and make it very easy to communicate both ways. His explanation as to why he doesn’t allow comments sounds very similar to Matt Cutts policy (he does allow comments but will not or can not reply).
Knowing that neither blogger will reply to comments, both do display comments (either via site comments or trackbacks) so they are publishing complimentary or contradicting ideals.
David Carlton said,
January 1, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
Better already! What service.
I don’t mind the sidebar links (well, maybe the volume is a bit excessive): that’s where I expect links to be. I seem to recall that the box below the header had links to posts, but I can’t remember for sure, and you’ve already gotten rid of the box in question. (Which is a _huge_ improvement.)
I would also get rid of the ‘related links’ box. For me, it has a certain dadaist pleasure (what do bodybuilders, PS3s, and Steve Irwin have to do with this?), but that gets tired quickly, and I’m never tempted to click on any of the posts. So I’d rather have you go straight from the post to the comments. (The ’share this post’ row doesn’t bother me, though, since it’s so short.) If you really like the related links, maybe move them to a sidebar?
I guess my view of what a blog entry’s page should look like for easy reading is this: a logo or something at the top (which I should be able to click on to get to the blog’s main page); the title right beneath that in the center; the post right beneath the title; comments beneath the post. Include one sidebar with navigation options; if you want another sidebar with ads, I won’t complain.
I rarely visit front pages of blogs that I read regularly, since the feed reader sends me straight to the pages for individual entries. What I generally look for on the front page is as easy way to tell whether or not it’s worth subscribing to the feed. So what I really want is the last 20 or so posts, with their full texts. Plus a navigation sidebar; if you want an ad sidebar too, that’s fine.
Looking at your front page, I would include the full text of each post and ditch the ’share this post’ rows. Actually, if you included the full text of posts on the front page, I probably wouldn’t mind the ’share this post’ rows there: as is, you spend half as much vertical space per post on the main page on self-promotion (i.e. ’share this post’) as you do on the snippet of text that you include; that ratio is way out of whack.
For what it’s worth, Seth’s explanation made sense to me. But it sounds like you’ve made a good choice in not subscribing to his blog.
Tristan Rhodes said,
January 1, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
I have to agree with David Carlton’s observations about your blog. I also noticed that your time-stamp is incorrect (several hours in the future), which causes your posts to stay at the top of any blog aggregrators (planets).
Thanks for letting us share our thoughts. I appreciate the information that you create in your blog, please keep it up.
Tristan
psabilla said,
January 1, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
@Tristan,
Thanks for the feedback.
Hmmm, the timestamp issue might be feedburner’s problem or the planet’s problem. If you look at the timestamp on this post, it’s stamped at 11:03AM, the correct time; but, on the Utah Open Source Planet’s site, it’s stamped at 6PM.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
Pete
Christer Edwards said,
January 1, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
The Open Source Planet (and other planets) use UTC so the time will be different when viewed there. I have the same issue on my SEO Planet.
David Carlton said,
January 1, 2007 @ 9:37 pm
Fabulous! Honestly, those changes made a load of difference for me.
psabilla said,
January 1, 2007 @ 10:10 pm
@David, @Clarke, and @Tristan:
Thanks very much for your feedback: I listened and implemented most of what you suggested. You can find out what I did here.
Again, thanks very much.
Pete
Chris said,
January 2, 2007 @ 8:33 am
I’m not sure if disallowing comments makes me not trust Seth but I think he’s missing the point of blogging by not allowing comments. Blogs are supposed to be conversational. You really can’t accomplish this without comments. When you don’t have comments its like telling your audience that their opinion on what you’ve said doesn’t count. It comes off as arrogant.
You do a great job of allowing free flowing conversation on your blog. I try to make this happen on my blog as well. Some of the best posts I have are were made great because of the conversation in the comments - not because of the actual post I wrote.
Chris Knudsen on Utah Business and Entrepreneurship said,
January 2, 2007 @ 8:50 am
[...] I came across a recent post by Pete Abilla where he calls out Seth Godin for not allowing comments on his blog. Its a good read but the post get’s even better in the comments where the conversation continues. [...]
Cory said,
January 2, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
I read about observations about Seths blog at Chris Knudsens site and responded with some thoughts… I thought I would enter a modified version here as well…
While I don’t enjoy one way blogs very much, I think they have a purpose and if that is the format a person desires to use that is certainly their option.
On a related note… I find it interesting that many if not most of the truly great bloggers like Seth provide an easy to find traditional email address on their blog site for people to contact them directly. I am very impressed with that.
I am amazed at all of the bloggers that don’t provide any method of direct contact other than the comments section of the blog. Some bloggers provide just a contact form so that they don’t need to reveal an email address and don’t need to deal with spam. …that makes you feel like a second rate citizen trying to gain entrance into a gated community.
Again, that is their option if that is how they desire to engage people….
But if people like Seth Goodin and Mack Collier and Mark Cuban are willing to provide a hotmail or yahoo email account and wade througlh all of the SPAM in order to give prople the dignity of communicating with them via a public email address… I think the bottom feeders that are trying to increase readership should highly consider inconveniencing themselves as well.
I notice you that you provide one of those stupid contact forms… I think you could increase trust by allowing people to contact you via an email address….
psabilla said,
January 2, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
@Cory,
Thanks for the feedback. I just included my email address as an alternative to the contact form. Thanks for reading.
Cory said,
January 2, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
Now that is what I call service!
Josh Carr said,
January 4, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
It is a little silly to try to fabricate rules about anything involving new media. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should and even if everyone says you should doesn’t mean you should. Adding comments to a blog doesn’t make it conversational, great content does. I am always talking to somebody about something Seth and other bloggers have said and I rarely leave comments - but they laid the foundation for the conversation.
Butchie said,
June 30, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
Guy Kawasaki is even worse than Godin. Ignore his vapid books and just observe how he promotes himself as a guru of business, which he’s cleraly not. Yet the sheeple worship him.