Enjoy this article? Please SUBSCRIBE to receive all the FREE updates!
I taught a class at Brigham Young University’s Marriott School of Management during the Winter 2007 semester. I taught a class on Operations and Supply Chain Management. All in all, it was a decent experience. I’ve taught before, but this time around was difficult. Life is so busy now — with family, a day job, and then teaching on the side — it’s too much. I’ll be taking a well-needed break and I’m going to just focus on my new career with eBay. But, it was also difficult for another reason: I’m very dissappointed in the students’ over-emphasis on grades which, I believe, greatly impacts their ability to learn and, more importantly, their opportunity to let education shape their character and make them better human beings.
For some reason or another, BYU students really, really, really care about their grades. True, I was once an undergraduate at BYU and, I probably cared about my grades then also. But, my eyes were really opened to the futility of grades when I attended The University of Chicago. At that school, nobody really cared about grades. Heck, they weren’t even reported to companies that recruited at the school. Professors didn’t really talk about grades; in retrospect, I don’t think anybody really cared about grades. What I did feel and what I did witness was that everybody cared about learning and about doing and about being. The emphasis was quite different and I loved it. Chicago is truly a learning institution.
To highlight my point above, I had one student who submitted a Factory Report paper, but sent it to the wrong email address; in other words, this student apparently completed the assignment, but failed to email the assignment correctly. I didn’t accept it. Here is the student’s email to me:
Wow, you really did give me a B-. I must have just been wrong in assuming you care more about not making a mistake in the sending process of an assignment than caring if an assignment is actually completed. Or maybe you’re starting to enjoy the "all power" privilege that comes with your newly-given, mighty teacher role. I guess if it comes to sticking to your guns to show that student who completed a 70 point assignment and did no more than made a typo in sending it to your email that you don’t make acceptions, you’re a great teacher. However, I’m sorry to inform you that that does not make you a great teacher, nor does is make you a good teacher; as a matter of fact that would classify you as a poor teacher, a power hungry teacher in my opinion. But all power to you, you did it, you showed me who was boss; and for that life lessons that great teachers teach their students that is a life lesson I’m sure i will never forget, well done!
Ignoring the student’s poor grammar just for one second, when I received this email, I really had to step back and seriously think for a moment: "was this student serious?" For goodness sakes, this student received a B- for the class, which is not bad at all. If I had accepted this student’s paper, the student would have received a B+ at most, which isn’t much of an improvement, in my opionion. At other schools like Chicago, nobody had received straight A’s since the 1930′s — which really encourages the students to just focus on learning, and not grades — there is a clear difference, in my mind. Below is my response to the student:
Thanks for your email.
In life and in work, if you submitted a report on time, but to the wrong location or, late, but to the correct location, the consequences are still the same: your audience, boss, or customer will most likely penalize you, fire you, or withhold a bonus from you. Imagine if a critical deliverable were completed on time, but sent to the wrong location; the recipient would be disappointed and a mistake is still a mistake, no matter how good-hearted or well-intentioned it might have been.
To be fair to the other students that did submit their report on-time AND to the correct email address, I did not give you points.
The tone and approach of your email shows much immaturity and disrespect and is quite judgmental. Sincerely and respectfully, I think you have much larger character issues to worry about than a B- in an undergraduate class.
Was my response too harsh? I don’t think so. I seriously believe that education has the potential to make one a better person, and to improve one’s character. I’m very dissappointed that isn’t happening for some students.
Enjoy this article? Please SUBSCRIBE to receive all the FREE updates!
 |  |  |  |  |
{ 15 comments… read them below or add one }
Great post. It’s sad, but not surprising. I don’t think your response was too harsh – the student was unprofessional and more interested in attacking your character than anything else. It’s unfortunate that students spend such a large percentage of their time focused on (in my opinion) the wrong things, but I also have a hard time blaming them given the system that they are going through. The culture of the school is as equally responsible as the individual students. It’s sad any way you look at it though. Most students spend so much time looking down at their books that they forget to look up and pay attention to the bigger picture.
That wasn’t just harsh, it was way harsh. Sure, as a teacher you have every right to deny a late paper for whatever reasons you want. But as the saying goes, there’s the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. Apparently the letter of the law is a B-.
Attacking your student’s character was just wrong. Even if he attacked your character first, I don’t think you should have done the same. I do not feel that he has “much larger character issues” because he sent you a forthright email detailing the conclusion he came to after agonizing over why you would fail his paper over something so trivial.
I think you’ve done more damage to this student’s spirit than good you’ve done by teaching him the real-world consequences of making a typo – because he’ll still keep making typos, I’ll keep making typos and you will too. That’s not a lesson anyone can learn. The only lesson you taught him is that you know a lot about justice and very little about mercy.
I’m sure you are an outstanding teacher Pete. But I think you are wrong in this case. It’s easy for us to look back on school after working in corporate America (or going to a school where less emphasis is placed on grades) and say, grades don’t mean a thing. But you can’t tell that to your students who haven’t learned that yet and are attending a school where grades mean everything.
If you truly believed that grades aren’t that important, give your student the B+. After all it’s just a grade, and as a bonus, you’ll also teach him the valuable lesson of mercy.
Nice post. But why do you want students NOT to be concerned with grades? For me, grades were just like KPIs to measure my performance. It is a reflection of my knowledge and my ability to work well. If I get a B-, I’d surely work harder for the next exam. A preoccupation with grades is necessary as it helps the student identify his areas of weakness and improve on it.
However, if there is little corelation between the grades and knowledge/ability of the student, then something is very wrong with the grading system. Being preoccupied with grades, hence is not wrong.
And the student’s email was improper and immature. Your response was more than fair. Had a client been at the receiving end of such a mail, surely he would have considered withdrawing his business.
@BYU Graduate,
I appreciate your comments. I think it is enough to say that there is more context above and beyond just what I share above. I believe there was much mercy given already, and the items I share above was really just a piece of what happened overall.
Regarding the grade — it’s the principle. This student didn’t deserve a higher grade — his paper came in 3 weeks after it was due; anyway, there’s more to the story than I share.
Regarding my response, it doesn’t sound harsh to me given the context, but if it is, I do apologize. My main message is — at the end of the day — is that because enough opportunities were given (mercy) and they weren’t taken, then I had no other choice but to do what I did (justice). Again, if my email was more harsh than it needed to be, I sincerely apologize.
Wow, reading this letter stirred a couple of different emotions in me. First, I was really struck by the immaturity of the graduate student who wrote that letter to you. You were absolutely correct in not accepting the paper for a number of reasons. That being said, I am just struck by the attitude of the student and their unwillingness to accept both the responsibility and consequences of their actions. As an employer I would have serious concerns about that behavior. The lesson for that young person is that mistakes often come with consequences. Sometimes it is a lower grade and sometimes it is a lost sale. But life goes on. Quite frankly, this is a lesson that should have been taught by the student’s parents and not by you.
Secondly, I am struck by their apparent disrespect for authority and their resorting to name calling to defend themselves. It amazes me that nobody taught this student the core behind effective arguments and that ad hominem attacks are not very effective and do nothing to further your point.
BYU Graduate said “I think you’ve done more damage to this student’s spirit than good you’ve done by teaching him the real-world consequences of making a typo – because he’ll still keep making typos, I’ll keep making typos and you will too. That’s not a lesson anyone can learn. The only lesson you taught him is that you know a lot about justice and very little about mercy.”. I could not agree with that less. This was not just a matter of typo’s (although I am appalled that this student did not proof his e-mail before they sent it). It is a matter of respect and dealing with the consequences. How do we know that the paper was actually done on time? How do we know that was not just an excuse? If the paper was that important then why not call the prof to make sure they received it?
Pete, I think you did the right thing.
“Sincerely and respectfully, I think you have much larger character issues to worry about than a B- in an undergraduate class.”
What a great line!
What amazes me is that there are so many arrogant students out there. I am fresh out of the University of Cape Town. I used to notice this attitude everywhere, everyday. It manifests incompetence and selfishness.
What scares me is that these students are often in powerful positions at University and usually end up in top management roles.
Pete,
I think you handled the issue appropriately. What your student and “BYU Graduate” don’t understand is there is much more to education than a grade. I was blown away by the lack of respect the student gave you. It is very apparent that the student has a lot more to learn in life than operations and supply chain management.
I think the student has failed himself. He has failed to recognize and understand the underlying principle. The student failed to understand that he would have been better off failing the class and ultimately receiving an ‘A’ in understanding the ‘life’ or ‘real world’ principle that you’ve attempted to teach him. It is unfortunate that the student doesn’t realize that a GPA might help get him a job, but it won’t keep his job. I’d much rather hire someone with character.
Kudos to you. You showed you cared by attempting to teach a more important principle.
What an interesting and provocative post. I am a BYU graduate too, but I must say respectfully that I disagree with that other BYU graduate.
After working in consulting firms for the last couple of years, I have to agree with you for the most part, Pete. When our firm turns a proposal in, it absolutely has to be on time and delivered to the right place or everyone knows it will not be accepted. Doesn’t matter who made the mistake, you or FedEx (true story), that’s just the way it goes. Whining or arguing about it would only be embarassing to everyone involved.
I agree with James above: better for the student to learn now with something as minor as a grade, than in the future with something as major as a proposal that will cost your company thousands of (possibly non-billable) dollars, not to mention your employer losing all respect for you because of a typo (which is the easiest kind of mistake to catch and fix, by the way).
I’m sorry to say that Pete is right about the grades hypersensitivity at BYU: my husband Marc did his pre-med there and witnessed (many times) embarassing displays of students bickering with teachers in front of the whole class about one point or one question on the test. I’m really sorry for the example they are setting, and I don’t think it is necessary. Marc still got into med school without losing his self-respect.
One final comment: in my opinion, mercy generally comes after you accept that fact that you deserve justice. Demanding mercy up front just seems wrong. What Pete did was fair and probably a lot more merciful in the long run than positively reinforcing this person’s behavior.
These threads actually point to a deeper issue – integrity.
If the student that received the low grade had integrity, the consequence would have been accepted due to the blunder of not delivering the assignment on time AND to the right address. The degradation of our society due to the apparent devaluation of the importance of integrity is appalling.
Your student did not fail the class; both mercy and justice were delivered. Mercy was shown in that you chose to accept the assignment. Justice was shown by giving the student an appropriate grade. All of our actions have consequences – both good and bad.
Integrity is something that can never be rebuilt when damaged or recovered, but can easily be lost.
You should have given the guy a C.
Hey Pete, I took your class in the Winter 2007 semester, probably that same class. I thought your grading procedures and approach were fair (then again, I got an A-, so I suppose I am bias). I am really sad to see a student lash out befitting a tantrum. I would agree, students are sometimes obsessed with grades.
I want to make it clear that not all BYU students are this way. However, there are some that are Type A personalities to the extreme and too troubled by grades.
As a student at the school, I’m glad you responded the way you did. I am concerned with grades, but only when they are sub-B level. I admit that it was quite a passion for me in high school, but once you get into your field of study in college, who cares!? Apparently certain BYU students do . . .
Your response was great. If the student is truly looking to better himself or herself while a student at the University, he or she will analyze what he or she wrote, what you wrote, and look for ways to improve (i.e. taking the stick out of you-know-where).
I would like to know who sent you that email . . .
Wow, this student displays a complete lack of tact, and maturity. Is that email for real?
Of all the job interviews I’ve ever conducted, not once have I asked a candidate about his/her grades. When doing reference checks with previous bosses, co-workers etc., my questions are usually along the lines of, “how did this person perform in his/her duties?”, “were they reliable?” and “how did they interact with their co-workers?”. I’m afraid this student will fail the last question miserable.
Grades while often a good indication of some combination of commitment, intelligence and hard work doth not a great person/employee make. I pity the company who hires this jerk gets to deal with the inevitable temper tantrums.
Respectfully, I think you and the posters are missing an important point. The interaction between you and the student did not just involve you and the student. As an employed representative of the university, your words and actions reflect on your employer. By acting as a personal counsellor instead of a teacher, you have stepped beyond the mandate under which the school employed you risking litigation in the process.
By your response, you made it perfectly clear to the student that his grade is based not entirely on content, but on whether you personally approve of a student’s words and actions — a test of behavior, not of the education you provided. Would you lower a student’s grade because he or she expressed similarly emotional sentiments towards women, or people of color, or of different national heritage? Of course not — you’d know better. In seeking to “teach a lesson”, you exposed your employer — the school — to potential litigation, by basing the grade on something other than content and the basic rules of engagement.
What you should have done is simply stated a deadline by which all assignments were due, and not accepted any assignments past that date for any reason. When the student acted as he did, you should have ignored the content of his message, and focused on the fact that he missed a deadline, period. You don’t need to teach him that missing deadlines in life is bad — he’s probably not that stupid, and it’s not your job.
The problem with a lot of smart, outgoing people is that they always want to teach, even when they shouldn’t.
And, I have to add that by posting his words here, you may be exposing youself and the university to a charge of slander if he reads them here, a distinct possibility.
@Bret,
Great point. I should have remained objective, instead of getting caught-up in the emotion myself. I should have just reiterated the late paper policy and ended the conversation. I appreciate the suggestion.