my interview & job offer from google
/*begin update*/
12/20/2006 Update: You might be interested in this ajaxy, draggable timeline of acquisitions completed by Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft. Enjoy!
8/23/2006 Update: I capitalize now — have been for several months. Enough readers gave me crap that I decided to capitalize. Also, the position was originally a full-time, well-paying position. I don’t think I made that clear enough. Google, then, offered me a contractual position and asked me to give up my well-paying, full-time position.
04/26/2006 Update: yes, i recited that brain teaser from memory, so i’m sure i shared it incorrectly. the approach, though, is this: thinking now of probability without replacement,
(364/365) * (363/365) . . .
this is the approach to the problem. given this, would i take the wager? no; it’s a bad bet.
regarding CapITALizATION: in business memos, reports, papers, and dissertations — yes. on my blog, i find it easier to just write and not worry about capitalization. no big deal; just a preference.
google contacted me about a position with the print team. i was well paid and was doing well at the company i was with at the time, but i agreed to interview with google anyway. the head of global print operations was under a lot of pressure due to the lawsuits, etc. yet, he needed headcount. the job was for a permanent position — why else would they go through a grueling 2 days of interviews for a contractor? but when i pressed him on salary and asked him to match what i was making and i anchored at an amount, he buckled and made it contractual instead. he waffled, so i said “no thanks”.
the people i met were nice, very bright, and focused on their work. several of them complained to me about their frustrations. i thought that was interesting. i declined because of the iffy-ness of a contractual job (though the cash would be very good); the high cost of the bay area wasn’t appealing to me; and, the future of the print effort seemed unsure to me. those were my reasons. now, back to the google interview below…
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back in october 2005, i interviewed with google, for a position with google print. my interview was over 2 days, on 10/12/2005 and 10/13/2005. i didn’t do much to prepare for the interview, except read-up on all the google print controversy regarding the n lawsuits against google print. unlike most companies that fly their candidates out for an onsite interview, google’s policy was for me to pay for my flight, hotel, and food, but that they would reimburse me later. i thought that was lame and unprofessional; after all, they are the ones that contacted me for an interview and i never applied for a job with them. luckily, i was going to be in that area anyway for business, so i just scheduled my business trip for that week.
day 1, 4 interviews
in the lobby reception desk, i typed my name on this little widget and signed the dotted line. then, this little widget prints a self-adhesive name tag with my name, google, and my location. i gladly took that self-adhesive and put in on my shirt breast. then, i met with the hr people, both of whom were very nice. they were very, very late, but i had fun hanging out in the lobby of 1625 charleston road, building #44. in the lobby were 4 refrigerators full of odwalla drinks; i helped myself to a couple. on the wall was a large flat monitor that showed, in real time, the current google searches. this was really amusing. i remember the following searches:
- size d bra
- how to make a bomb
- osama
- italian mob + hbo
- catholic anger
this was really cool. finally, the hr folks were ready and brought me into a room next to the korean and chinese speaking engineers. my first interviewer came in late and was really sweaty. he had just ridden his bike to work. he was sorry he was late. he was super nice and his questions were easy. the next person was a little tougher; she had been with sun microsystems for several years and was in charge of their warehouse and distribution side. she asked some tough questions, was very open about her frustrations with google, but ended up very nice to me. the next person came in had a background in library science and an mba from michigan. he was really nice too and asked fluffy questions. he wasn’t an engineer and i don’t think he knew what to ask me, so he asked me lame conversational-type questions. i don’t think it was a fit interview either; i think he was just clueless. the next person i interviewed with was sharp; he was a stanford mba and had been in the print industry for a while. he wasn’t quantitative at all, but was nice. he asked me hypothetical questions about potential problems that they face in the print group. the problems were very interesting. there is true innovation going on at google, for sure.
that was it for day 1. there was no lunch, but i was free to raid the fully-stocked kitchen whenever i wanted to; i helped myself to a healthy dose of mountain dew and stopped by the cafeteria for a veggie sandwich. the atmosphere there is very cool and i felt energy and could visually see the innovation going on. very cool.
that evening, i went to my hotel and did some work for the company i was with at the time.
day 2, 7 interviews
i did the whole self-adhesive, name tag thing again. got an odwalla (2 of them), then waited. eventually, the hr people came and got me. this day was much tougher than day 1. my first interview was with a former nasa scientist-turned googler. my interview with him was fun and interesting; he proposed several real case studies and problems that they face in the print team. my second interview was with another engineer; he asked me basic questions and one brain teaser. the brain teaser goes something like this, if i remember it right:
you are at a party with a friend and 10 people are present including you and the friend. your friend makes you a wager that for every person you find that has the same birthday as you, you get $1; for every person he finds that does not have the same birthday as you, he gets $2. would you accept the wager?
i had fun trying to solve this one. the answer has to do with the number of days in the year and the probability the person’s birthday falls on the same day as mine (without replacement). i eventually solved it, but it took time learning how to apply probability with no replacement. i tried using 10! (factorial), for some reason, but that was totally the wrong approach. we ended the interview; i didn’t feel as good about that one, because i struggled a little bit through that brain teaser.
my next interviewer asked a lot of algorithm questions. he made me write pseudo-code for a binary search; he had me uml a system; he made me explain cron, diff, the permission system in unix, and had me write a bunch sql queries. this guy was a scientist at epson, the printer company. he was sharp; quantitative but warm. i liked that interview. my next interview was with a nice lady who had been with google for a few years. she was cold, but not mean; observant, but not expressive. i felt that i answered her questions fine and our interview was done.
my next couple of interviews were with people that i had interviewed with the previous day, in day 1. those went fine and uneventful. but, by this time of day, i was getting really tired, physically and just tired of interviewing.
alas, the last interviewer came, the head of global operations for the google print team. he was very nice, open, and direct. that interview went fine and he openly shared his strong interest in my background and said that i’d be a great addition to the team. he also shared how living in the bay area is so nice and seemed to be trying to sell the location and the company. i saw this as a good sign. our time ended; i left, but before i walked out the bulding, i managed to steal a few more of those odwalla drinks.
i drove to the san jose airport, caught my flight, and went home.
weeks later. . .
the hr guy called and gave me an offer! but, it wasn’t what i was expecting. i was excited for the google stock units (gsu) and the phat salary that would barely keep me alive with the bay area cost of living, but that’s not what i got. instead, google offered me a contractual position, with a very high hourly rate. of course, because it was contractual, there would be no benefits or google stock units. on the phone, on the spot, i declined the job offer. moving to the bay area wasn’t that appealing to me, especially if the job didn’t have google stock units and benefits. the cash was good, but my family needed more than that.
all in all, the experience was okay. there is certainly more hype about google than i believe it really merits. true, they hire sharp — really sharp people; i felt a lot of energy and could see the innovation happening there, but many of them seemed really unhappy. i can’t put my finger on it, but many employees i met really seemed unhappy and many mentioned the intense bureaucracy present at google — the people i interviewed with didn’t seem happy to me. they looked tired and grumpy. i didn’t get a feeling that google treats their people very well. i’m glad for my decision not to join google. but, i’ll always wish i had free reign on those odwalla drinks 
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Comments
It may not be a good idea to decline an offer on the spot. You should have told them you were excited about the opportunity to work at google but for practical reasons you needed a better offer.
In other words, tell them exactly what it would take to get you out there and see if they give it to you. You never know. If you decline immediately they assume you have no interest and there is nothing they can do to hire you.
Maybe you didn’t have any interest, but it’s always good to try to negotiate and see what happens.
[...] A new Utah business blogger Pete Abilia has a great post on his site about his 2 days of interviews with Google last year. He turned them down when they offered him a high-paying contract position but no stock and no benefits. Pete will be able to tell his grandchildren someday, “yeah, Google made me an offer, but I turned them down on the spot.” Cool. Pete has one of the most ad-packed blogs I’ve seen lately, but he does have some great content, and Guy Kawasaki actually does link to his blog. Welcome to the Utah blogosphere, Pete! [...]
The answer is obviously NO-DON’T WAGER.
you don’t even need to do probabilities.
Do you mean birthday, or birthday MONTH
n m,
actually, the answer is located here. also, they were looking for a thought process rather than a final answer. thanks for reading.
pete
I got the same feeling about the Googlers. In my interviews, they generally seemed to be pretty disheveled, and not so thrilled that they had to be interviewing (when a company grows as fast as they did, everyone hires). Some interviews were better than others, and the immature interviewers resorted to “Im smarter than you” tactics (technical one-upsmanship). As someone who has hired technical staff for over 5 years, I really only got the feeling that one or two of my 7 interviewers knew what they were doing. In the end, they pulled a bait-and-switch on me, offering me a different job than the one I applied to. I’m really glad I hadn’t drank the Kool Aid…a lot of Googlers I know seem to be unhappy with their jobs.
They actually offered a job (contract) to someone who doesn’t seem to be able to use proper capitalization?
I am sorry but the teaser you wrote is not much of a teaser. Can you
verify if you got it correctly?
Having 10 people in a room and asking for odds someone having birthday
the same day you do is next to nothing. Basically you lose all your money.
On the birthday problem…
The link you give is a different problem from the one you describe in the interview. The link describes the probability that *any* two partygoers will have the same birthday, which is 1 – 364/365 * 363/365 * 362/365 … * 343/365, which works out to > 1/2. The interview question, as you describe it, is whether any of the partygoers have the same birthday *as you*.
I don’t really understand the question, because it seems too easy. The chance that any given person will have the same birthday as you is 1/365. If you lose $2 364/365 of the time, and win $1 1/365 of the time, you’re going to be in a really deep hole. Are you certain this is how they phrased it?
Well, now you’ve gotten yourself into three separate birthday party puzzles, all with different answers and probabilities. If I’m talking to you on a street corner, and someone walks by, the probability of him having my birthday is 1/365, or 364 to 1. I will happily pay you a dollar if he doesn’t have my birthday, but only if you pay me a fair rate for actually matching my birthday: $364. It doesn’t matter how many times this process is repeated (a roomful of people will have independent birthdays). The odds are still the same.
Perhaps 12 people in a room want to wager that any two of them have the same birthday? 4:1 odds would be about fair for that.
“also, they were looking for a thought process rather than a final answer.”
The problem, as stated, is trivial and shouldn’t take more than a second’s consideration. I believe you stated the problem incorrectly. As stated, your friend is essentially offering you:
For every person at the party, 1/365 you win $1. 364/365 you lose $2.
I don’t know why people seemed unhappy to you in Google, the stock price alone takes very good care of them. Are your interviewers all contractual workers? haha…
I know someone who just got out of college and went there as a beginner QA not that long ago, still got filthy rich with his stock options. Is he happy? Do we even need to ask?
Some info on birthday probabilities is here: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BirthdayProblem.html
I recall reading somewhere that the minimum number of people to have in a sample in order to have a 50% chance of at least ONE pair of people sharing a birthday is 23. I also recall reading (somewhere? or maybe it was in college) that with 50 people in a room, there is a 97% chance that at least one pair of people will share a birthday.
That’s all I got, and I don’t work for Google.
Maybe you’re at a party that is thrown for multiple people celebrating the same birthday…wow, now we’re talking. Personally I would have asked a question or two about the party before answering…it’s definitely about thought process, you could argue that everyone there has the same birthday, technically you’re not wrong without knowing more information.
Do you, Digg User, know that the lack of capitalization in no way detracted from his story? Stop nitpicking just because you have nothing worthwhile to say.
I think the birthday question is how many people have the same birth *DAY* as you.
As in if you’re birthday is on the the first of the month, how many people will also have their birth day on the first vs. the same birth date: month/day/year
I wonder what the hourly rate was. I live in the bay area as a software contractor. The going rate for Sr. C# / .NET contractors (going through a body shop) is around $60-$70 / hour on a 1099 or corp-to-corp basis.
I would assume that since there was no body-shop middleman adding an additional 25%-35%, they would be able to beat this rate.
Were they able to better the typical going rate?
My response would have been …
“So, is my friend a hot girl? Cause i’d probably just give her the money in hopes of sleeping with her…”
-or-
“Hell, I’m at a party and gambling? Do i have bigger problems. . .?”
-or-
“I work for Google, I want to bet more like, $10,000 dollars (evil laugh)”…
Not using capitalization is a way to show that you are too cool for school. Obviously you know how to capitalize, but you just don’t give a **** – so why bother. Next year people will start dropping the punctuation. Then you will be sorry for whining about this lack of capitalization.
[...] I was reading somebody’s description of their job interview at Google, and apparently they asked him something to do with the birthday paradox: you are at a party with a friend and 10 people are present including you and the friend. your friend makes you a wager that for every person you find that has the same birthday as you, you get $1; for every person he finds that does not have the same birthday as you, he gets $2. would you accept the wager? [...]
I think you capture the essence of the Google work environment very well — especially the part of the Sweaty Bicycling Employee being late for your interview. I hope he wasn’t covered in Smug, though 
Isn’t the interview process subject to nondisclosure? You could be risking your offer by disclosing it.
Siqi Chen….
uh… did you read? i dont reckon he cares if the offer is “risked”… he declined them cuz they weren’t ready to drop that stock on him…
lol@the story…. i love to hear how unhappy people are behind the digital curtain of this very public company… hehehe. it’s like a nazi propaganda film where all ‘ze’ germans are eating their bunt cake and smiling and waving, and forthing over hitler like he was a Beatle or something… but the reality of it is that they are all paid actors or threatened before hand… ahh.. such is google… the fourth reich.
I can understand how people can make good money and still be unhappy
with their jobs. Especially in the SF bay area, where there is a lot
of pressure put on people not just to work hard, but to live up to
certain expectations. It doesn’t surprise me at all that some
Googlers are unhappy.
///but, the people i interviewed with didn’t seem happy to me. they looked tired and grumpy.
They may not have APPEARED to be happy, but Human Beings are certainly more multi-dimensional than a chance meeting during their workday.
To you this was a very important ocassion, but don’t forget – they may have had many other important projects on their minds which consumes alot of mental and physical energies.
But, even as a consultant – the networking with some of the most brilliant minds anywhere is priceless.
check out the xooglers.blogspot.com if you haven’t already.
>Do you know there are Shift and Caps Lock buttons on your keyboard?
I guess somebody at digg thinks you should scream some in your article.
The birthday problem (as stated) analysis is as follows:
You have to calculate the expected value (average winnings) of each person (you and your con-artist friend) and compare the two.
The expected value for you is:
(9C1)*(1/365)(1-1/365)^8 + (9C2)(1/365)^2(1-1/365)^7 + … + (9C9)(1/365)^9
The expected value for your friend can be caluated in a similar way. As it turns out your friend’s expected winnings is much higher, as a result he will make a killing.
Now it seems based on the answer given by the author, that the original problem statement was probably something along the lines of:
“you owe 2 bucks to your friend if no one in the room has the same birthday and you get a buck from your friend if at least have 2 people have the same birthday”
All nitpicking aside, the Google interview process can be painful. I was approached by Google for work internationally, and went through a 12 person interview process. All the feedback I got was very positive (inside source), and the final stage of the interview process was with a very high level person in the company. She determined (probably fairly accurately) that I didn’t have the experience they needed for that particular position. End of interview process.
Ideally, I wouldn’t have done the previous 11 interviews, or at least those 11 interviews would have been with people who were looking for something more similar to what this final interviewer was seeking.
In short, I think Google is a great company with solid market position (in an industry with almost null switching costs… ergo shaky ground) and pretty smart (though generally not brilliant) people. The interview process, however, could stand some scrutiny…
Interview processes at top companies are generally very painful. They are trying to be highly selective. If they just wave everyone in the door, they wouldn’t get extraordinary people.
One company I worked for during the Internet boom, staffed entirely with Stanford, MIT, and Princeton grads, asked nothing but hard brainteasers. They were a web startup, but didn’t bother asking programming questions, under the theory that a bright person would pickup any programming they needed. For 6 hours, a candidate would be asked approximately 12 brainteasers. If you made some progress answering 4, that was considered good, but we generally didn’t make an offer unless they made some progress answering all 12. One candidate stopped in the middle of an interview and said, “stop, I’m tired of this. It’s over” and just walked out of the building.
I agree with the instinct that you needed a permanate position rather than a contract position. I personally belive that from my expreience in HR and management that you may have found your interviewers to not be excited about there jobs because they first do several of these a day, boring work, second the position requires alot of thought, many of these people who opperate at such a high level are not capable of being your best friend, they relate to people on a much more mechanical level. As for the brain teasers, these other comments don’t get the point, that is to describe the odd mathmatically not just using reason. Computers don’t use reason, they use math!
It amazes me to see how many people equate happiness with financial achievement. Just as some of the happiest people I know are very low wage earners, some of my richest contacts are also very unhappy. Joy is a gift. All the rest is posing.
Pete – I’m glad you documented that. Very interesting post. I think I’ll go get an odwalla drink!
P.s. I found your spot on VIPBloggers!